Van Til Tool

Using the Van Til Perspective as the tool to discover what life means and how it ought to be lived.

Monday, June 06, 2005

A Critique of Alvin Plantinga's "Possible Worlds" Version of the Ontological Argument

A Critique of Alvin Plantinga’s “Possible Worlds” Version

Of The Ontological Argument

By Forrest W. Schultz


Philosopher Alvin Plantinga has composed an intriguing version of the Ontological Argument which involves the conception of other possible worlds.* Before I set forth and critique Plantinga’s argument, let me first express my praise for what he says in his prolegomenon to the argument. He rightly says there that since God’s attributes are not accidental and adventitious, but intrinsic and necessary, that therefore He would have these same unsurpassably excellent qualities in all the possible worlds He could create, not just this one. This is a very important point, which is rarely mentioned in theology, and Plantinga deserves to be applauded for noting and stressing it. It means that the attributes of God which are revealed in His Word and displayed in His creation are truly His, which means they would be operative in any other possible world He has created, will create, or could create. For example, we must not suppose that God just happens to act righteously in our world but that He might act wickedly in some other world. In short, since God’s aseity means that His attributes are only dependent upon Himself (and are in no way dependent upon anything outside Himself), this means that God would be the same – i.e. unsurpassable great and perfect – with respect to any possible worlds. This can be referred to as the “trans-worlds unsurpassable greatness principle”.

However, it is logically fallacious to try to use this trans-worlds unsurpassable greatness principle to prove the existence of God, as Plantinga does, because this involves proceeding backwards, i.e. moving in thought from the principle to God instead of from God to the principle. The main premises in Plantinga’s argument is his assumption that there is a possible world having an unsurpassably great being. Then, using the principle noted, he says that for this being to be unsurpassable great it must be so in every possible world (including this one). Therefore, it exists.



-1-










It is easy to refute this argument on Van Tillian grounds. First of all, the correct definition of a possible world is a world which would be possible for God to create. Therefore, in order to properly conceive of a possible world we must presuppose God, because it is God who defines what is possible, namely what it is possible for Him to do. Now we must either use this correct definition of possible or else make up our own definition. If we do the former, we need to presuppose God, which means we are begging the question, i.e. assuming what we claim to be proving. If we wish to avoid begging the question by ignoring God then our own definition of possibility would be false, and therefore not usable in any argument.

The way in which Plantinga phrases his main premises makes it clear that he is simply making an assumption, which he hopes the reader will regard as reasonable. But if we do not accept God’s definition of possibility, then each person is free to formulate his own conception of possibility, and according to some of these conceptions the idea of an unsurpassably great being might not be regarded as reasonable. To any such the argument will not be convincing. Plantinga himself recognizes this point and concedes that his argument will not convince everyone.

But the main thing that is wrong with Plantinga’s argument is that he does not treat God as God, i.e. as the Supreme Authority for defining what is possible. Although he wants to convince the reader of theism, in which God is autonomous, he argues on the basis of humanism, in which man is autonomous, and therefore free to judge what he regards as possible. If we claim to be believers in theism, then we should act and think like theists, not like humanists!

NOTE

*Alvin Plantinga, The Nature of Necessity (Oxford University Press, 1974), pp. 213-221



Forrest W. Schultz has a B.S. in Chemical Engineering degree from Drexel University and a Th.M. in Systematic Theology degree from Westminster Theological Seminary.



-2-

32 Comments:

  • At Tuesday, April 07, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "But the main thing that is wrong with Plantinga’s argument is that he does not treat God as God, i.e. as the Supreme Authority for defining what is possible."

    Forrest
    How do you know that God is the Supreme Authority for defining what is possible?

    Steve M

     
  • At Wednesday, April 08, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    That is easy -- God is the Supreme Authority for everything.

    Forrest

     
  • At Wednesday, April 08, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    How do you know that?

    Steve M

     
  • At Wednesday, April 08, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    That is the very nature of God.

     
  • At Wednesday, April 08, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    How do you know what the nature of God is?

    Steve M

     
  • At Thursday, April 09, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    Also easy. Unlike creatures, who are dependent for their continuing existence on other beings, God is only dependent upon Himself for His continuing existence. Prior to His creation of His creatures He was the ONLY being in existence. Therefore the only love that existed then was His love, the only logic was His logic, the only righteousness His righteousness, etc etc So there was and is NO other possible standard because no other possible source for any of these qualities and no other possible authority.

    QED

    This is simple logic. I am not trying to be pious and holy by saying this. This is simply the truth whether we believe it or not, or whether we like it or not. That is just the way it is.

    This is deep stuff but it is also very simple, really. The thing that confuses most people is that they think like Plato -- they suppose that there is some ideal realm of logic and ethics and beauty, etc. There IS a realm of these things but that realm is GOD, not some abstract realm. It is part of the very essence of God. And God is a Person, the supreme Person, not an abstraction.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Thursday, April 09, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    I do not necessarily disagree with the things you are telling me about God, but you are not telling me HOW you know these things.

    How do you know that God is only dependent upon himself for His continuing existence?
    How do you know He created anything? Etc., etc., etc....

    Are you really saying that you have arrived at this knowledge by (simple) logic alone?

    Are you a rationalist?

    You have not told me how you attained anything you claim as knowledge. You just keep spouting additional items that you claim to know.

    Steve M

     
  • At Friday, April 10, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    Sorry, I thought you knew that I believe that Scripture is God's Word. The attributes of God I have been referring to are all taught in or derived from Scripture. I am emphatically not a rationalist (or any other kind of -ist): I am a Biblical theist.

    Forrest

     
  • At Friday, April 10, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    I agree that Scripture is God's Word and that Scripture is the basis of all our knowledge (including our knowledge about God). One of the major differences between Clark and Van Til is that Clark maintains that our Axiom (the starting point) of our philosophical system is that "the Bible is the word of God." Van Til maintains that God, Himself, is the starting point. Clark presupposes The truth of Scripture and from that presupposition goes on to reach all of his other conclusions by logical deduction from the propositions of Scripture. Van Til, on the other hand makes God his stating point, but still maintains that God's existence can be proved by certain arguments. He endorsed the validity of the "theistic proofs". If one's axiom can be proven, it is not one's starting point. The proofs are then the starting point.

    Steve M

     
  • At Monday, April 13, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    Dear Steve,

    According to what I have heard from Van Til scholars, Van Til rejects the traditional theistic proofs but then advances his own theistic proof, which has traditionally been called "The Impossibility Of The Contrary", which states that if God does not exist then we cannot know anything; therefore He exists". First of all, a minor point, but which needs to be made if you are a strict logician. According to the consensus of those discussing this matter in a Van Til email discussion group about a decade ago, the proof is misnamed: the real name is actually "The Impossibility of the Contradictory." [In the famous logic square (with its corners being True, Contrapositive, Contrary and Contradictory] it is the contradictory corner that is the correct name for what CVT does.]

    OK, now to the "proof" itself. It is true, of course, that we do not start with God we cannot be sure of knowing anything. But this is NOT a PROOF. God's nature and existence is the starting point and foundation for all truth and all proofs. God is that which makes proof possible. What throws most people off the track in this whole matter is that they think that we should not believe in God unless He can be proved. For anything in creation, this is the case, but it is not the case for God because of His aseity. Anybody trying to prove that God exists thereby shows that He does not really understand the nature of God. Since God is ultimate and self-existent, He does not depend on anything else. Claiming to prove God is claiming that the thing the proof is based on is more ultimate than God -- it is treating God as though He were a creature instead of the Creator. To conclude, it is true, as CVT stated, that if God is not presupposed then no knowledge is possible. But this is NOT a proof of the existence of God. There have been those who have stated that CVT did not really mean what he said -- that it was uttered "tongue in cheek". I do not know, but I do not think so and the guys in this CVT email discussion group believed that Van Til DID mean this literally and did believe he was thereby proving God. I think they are probably right that CVT did actually mean it, and, if so, then I disagree with CVT on this.

    btw, there was a really interesting thing that happened in this group (it was called one of the van til lists), and that is that they tried to refute me when I showed that CVT was begging the question in his "proof", because God needs to be presupposed to know anything. One of them went so far as to claim that to say this was begging the question was to be guilty of a certain logical fallacy (he called it Jacob's fallacy). Well, it turned out that there is no such thing -- the guy finally admitted that he made it up!!!

    Now to the point of the Clark/ Van Til difference on starting point. I believe that God Himself is the starting point and that He reveals Himself both through Scripture, which is His Word, and through His creation, provided that we interpret what we see in creation according to His Word.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Wednesday, April 15, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    First, I want to thank you for taking the time to respond to my questions. I enjoy engaging in an exchange of ideas with someone who is obviously knowledgeable about Scripture.

    Are you saying that God (not Scripture) is our epistemological starting point? And that God reveals himself not only through the propositions set forth in Scripture, but also through non-propositional sensations of the material universe?

    I believe that God has revealed Himself directly to the minds of all men. The rationality of those minds is the image of God and it is that rationality that leaves them without excuse. Even those that have never been exposed to Scripture are without excuse because God made them rational.

    I believe that Scripture is the epistemological starting point. Deductive logic applied to the explicit propositions of Scripture amounts to the whole counsel of God.

    Steve M

     
  • At Saturday, April 18, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    You are quite welcome and you are concerned about very important matters as I am.

    I am not sure exactly what you mean by "non-propositional sensations". The sensations we receive are not themselves propositions but they, when rightly interpreted by our mind, communicate propositional truth. For instance our sensation of green grass is not itself a proposition but, when our sight and our mind are functioning as they should, we know from seeing the grass that it is green. God gave us our mind and our senses, which, when functioning as divinely intended, will convey to us information we need to live our lives as God intended to enjoy the Earth and rule over it in a responsible manner. The notion that what our eyes do not see reality is a spurious (Kantian) notion, not a Biblical one. The fact that we do not through sense perception know ALL that is to be known about an object is, of course, true since only God is omniscient. But what God grants us the ability to know through sight is indeed true. If it were not true, then we would either need to conclude that God is deceiving us or else is unable to construct our eyes so that they can convey truth to our mind.

    Another very important epistemological concern is the Scriptural usage of natural objects and phenomena to convey spiritual truth. For instance, when Christ is said by Scripture to be the Vine and we are the branches, this presupposes that we know what a vine is and what branches are. if we do not, then we cannot learn the truth Scripture is teaching here. And there are many many other instances of this -- for example, light and darkness: when the Word refers to Christ as the Light of the world, and to Satan as the Prince of Darkness, it presupposes that the reader knows what light and darkness are, which we learn from sense perception.

    As I mentioned in a previous post,
    we can learn truth from nature if we interpret our observations of nature in accord with Biblical principles. The Bible is both self-interpreting and also the interpreter of the data we receive from nature. This, of course, is the classical Reformed view of the matter in which tradition I stand.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Monday, April 20, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    How is it that patches of various colors on our retinas tell us anything about an abstract concept such as grass? Isn't it necessary that one knows what grass is before one can know it is green?

    Steve M

     
  • At Tuesday, April 21, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    My response wit be brief because I am responding on a tablet and typing is slow.
    I have a question.
    How do patches of various colors including green communicate anything about an abstract concept such as grass? Doesn't one have to know what grass is before one can know it is green?

    Steve M

     
  • At Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    Dear Steve,

    You are confusing actual grass with the abstract concept of grass. I was referring to actual grass, the grass I see out there in my yard. That grass is green. But the abstract concept of grass is not green.

    A similar distinction also needs to be made lingually. Grass is green, but the word "grass" is not green.

    Anyway, I was referring to actual grass, not the concept of grass, and not the word "grass".

    Now you can get into a debate about which species or varieties to include within the concept of grass, but that is not at all the subject we are discussing. The point is this: the grass out there in my yard is green because God made it green; and God wanted me to have the delightful experience of appreciating the beauty of the grass for which reason he gave me the eyes, optic nerve, brain, etc. to be able to see and appreciate its green color. By communicating this to me God shares with me His joy in the grass so that I too can have a finite human experience of it, which is analogous to God's supreme appreciation of it. By the way, another thing about this is the development of it in my life. At first, like everyone, I appreciated obviously beautiful things like flowers and sunsets but did not think of grass as being beautiful. It was only after closely observing and really appreciating the beauty of the greenness of the grass as well as its structual beauty that I really got to know how beautiful grass is. Later on, several decades ago, when I saw programs on TV about the plants at the bottom of the ocean, at first I did not like the way they
    looked, but after I looked more closely I came to realize that they too are beautiful, and then, I realized the theological significance -- of course, they had to be beautiful because God is beautiful and cares about beauty which is why He makes His creatures beautiful.

    Steve, this whole thing is far more important than attacking Kant, and all that -- it is of supreme spiritual and theological significance.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Wednesday, April 22, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    How does one know that what is in ones yard is grass if one does not know what grass (the abstract concept) is?

    Steve M

     
  • At Thursday, April 23, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    I do not see the relevance of this kind of question. I am not talking about a professional biologist or a professional logician endeavoring to concoct a watertight definition of the word "grass". I am refering to the ordinary person having an ordinary experience of looking at grass and seeing that it is green, so I do not see the relevance of your question for that.

    Forrest

     
  • At Thursday, April 23, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I am not certain what you mean by "actual" grass that I have supposedly confused with the the abstract concept of grass that an ordinary person must have in order to know what it is that is in his yard. Apparently, an ordinary person knows that there is grass in his yard prior to having any concept of what grass is. You are the one who is confused. I don't blame you for avoiding the question. An ordinary person has an ordinary experience of looking at something in his yard with no idea what it is and no idea what color is, but you claim this person "sees" green grass. This person is able to do this because he is neither a professional biologist nor a professional logician. Only one of these professionals would need an abstract understanding of what grass is before knowing that is what is in the yard. You write nonsense.

     
  • At Saturday, April 25, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    You along with a lot of philosophers, such as Kant, are CREATING a problem. There IS no problem. The basis upon which Kant argues is fallacious because it is not based on God. When you start with God there is NO problem because God has created both the grass and the persons who see it, and He is neither a deceiver nor is He incompetent. Ergo, grass is really green. Any kind of requirement to define "grass" is a red herring, which needs to be rebuffed for the fatuity it is. It is the Kantians who speak nonsense.

    I hope you are not associating Clark with Kant. If you do, you are disgracing Clark. I thought you wanted to defend Clark, not attack him.

    Forrest

     
  • At Saturday, April 25, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    You have no idea what your starting point is. You claim to start with God, but then make all kinds of statements about God that you could only have obtained from Scripture. You seem clueless that your starting point is Scripture.
    You keep bringing up Kant whom I have never mentioned. It is an obvious attempt to avoid actually answering what I ask. If you can't answer something I ask, just say so. It would be much more honest than what you do.

    Steve M

     
  • At Tuesday, April 28, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    Here is what Clark has to say about How Man Knows God:

    http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=84

    Steve M

     
  • At Thursday, April 30, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    My starting point is God. Since the Bible is His Word, I accept its doctrines as true. And based on these doctrines I know that He has given me sense perception to convey knowledge to me.

    Thanks for the article by Clark. I have downloaded it and will be reading and studying it during the next few days and hope to have formulated a reply shortly after that.

    Forrest

     
  • At Friday, May 01, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Since the Bible is His Word, I accept its doctrines as true."

    Forrest
    What is the source of your knowledge that the Bible is God's Word?

    Steve M

     
  • At Friday, May 01, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    A. Clark's Essay Critiqued

    1.The Image of God

    Man is the creaturely image of God. The image of God is not some part of man, such as his mind or soul or spirit. The whole man is the image of God. The body is what we use to carry out the decisions we make in our mind. Ditto with God -- He really does have hands, not human hands, of course, but divine hands. His hands are much much more entitled to be called hands than our human hands. They are far more handy than our hands!!Our human hands are finite creaturely copies of His omnipotent Hands!!

    2. Errors In Sensation

    If errors in sensation, such as those pointed out by you and by Clark, nullify sensation's epistemic validity, then, by the same argument the Bible epistemic validity can also be ruled out because we can make mistakes in understanding its language and we can make logical errors in formulating its doctrines.

    B.Source of Knowledge that Bible is God's Word

    Christ, in His Supreme Authority, delegated teaching authority to His apostles, who wrote (or supervised the writing of) the New Testament books, which is where they get their authority. Also, Christ Himself and His apostles regarded the OT as the Word of God

    By the way, the original meaning of the word canon, formulated by Irenaus, was the system of truth in the Bible, not the list of the books in the Bible.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Sunday, May 03, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest

    Your critique of Clark is certainly not in depth. You posit that the image of God in which man was made consists of the man's body as well as his rational mind. You point out that God has hands and that man's hands are “copies” of Gods hands. Gorillas also have hands. Are their hands also the image of Gods hands? Gorillas also have eyes, ears, noses, a nervous system and taste buds. Are gorillas bodies part of the image of which the Bible speaks. Gorillas lack rationality. It is obvious that the mind of a Gorilla is not the image, but why not his body?

    If one makes errors in in understanding the language of Scripture or if one makes logical errors in deriving doctrines from the propositions of Scripture, then one will not discern the truth from Scripture. However, our errors in logic and linguistic misunderstandings do not negate the truth of Scripture.

    You declare, “Christ, in His Supreme Authority, delegated teaching authority to His apostles, who wrote (or supervised the writing of) the New Testament books, which is where they get their authority. Also, Christ Himself and His apostles regarded the OT as the Word of God”.

    What is the source of your knowledge of these statements you make if it is not Scripture? If the source of your knowledge of these things you state IS Scripture, why is Scripture not your staring point?

    Steve M

     
  • At Tuesday, May 05, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    Dear Steve,

    I said, as the Bible does, that MAN is the image of God. I did NOT say that gorillas (or any other animals) were the image of God.

    My starting point is GOD, i.e. God as a whole, not some part of God or aspect of God. I accept the authority of the Bible because it is the Word of GOD, i.e. I first accept the authority of God, and then, because God has chosen to speak through His Word, I then accept the authority of the Bible. In accepting Scripture as authoritative you are presupposing God Himself, who has such a nature as to be the Supreme Authority. The Bible presupposes God. So, God is actually your starting point whether you realize it or not.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Monday, May 11, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    "My starting point is GOD, i.e. God as a whole, not some part of God or aspect of God."

    What is the source of the knowledge you claim to start with of "God as a whole" prior to any exposure to Scripture?
    Is it knowledge of the "one true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts or passions" or is it knowledge of a being with hands whose image is not invisible?

    "He created man, male and female, with reasonable and immortal souls, endued with knowledge, righteousness, and true holiness, after His own image;"

    The things mentioned as being "after His own image" are all invisible and seem to be properties of their "reasonable and immortal souls" rather than their bodies.

    Steve M

     
  • At Thursday, May 14, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    My starting point "God as a whole" is not chosen in a vacuum, as though I did not know the Scripture. It is BECAUSE I know Scripture that I have taken God as a whole as starting point. Actually you MUST do this because of what Scripture teaches us about God. If you only take some part of God or aspect of God or work of God or only some of the revelation of God as your starting point, you will end up with a distorted theology. Since we know from the Word of God that God reveals Himself through His creation we must not neglect that. Actually, if we do do that we are not being faithful to Scripture because it is on the basis of what we know about God through Scripture that we know that we can learn about God from His work in His creation, provided that it is properly interpreted by the knowledge in in His Word.

    Forrest

     
  • At Friday, May 15, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    ”My starting point "God as a whole" is not chosen in a vacuum, as though I did not know the Scripture.”

    Forrest
    I read you loud and clear. You do not choose your starting point until you already know Scripture.

    ”It is BECAUSE I know Scripture that I have taken God as a whole as starting point.”

    I see, choosing God as your starting is a result of your prior knowledge of Scripture.

    ”Actually you MUST do this because of what Scripture teaches us about God.”

    I understand completely. You are telling me that the result (taking God as a whole as your as starting point) precedes the cause (i.e. knowing what Scripture teaches us about God).

    ”If you only take some part of God or aspect of God or work of God or only some of the revelation of God as your starting point, you will end up with a distorted theology.”

    So you are telling that you avoid ending up with a distorted theology by taking every aspect and work of God together with every aspect of His revelation as your starting point. I am confused. I thought God, Himself, was your starting point. Are you now saying that God, His creation and His written revelation are all three your starting point? If that is not what you are saying, I have no idea what you are saying. It seems like double-talk to me.

    ”Since we know from the Word of God that God reveals Himself through His creation we must not neglect that.”

    How is it that you know something prior to your starting point?

    ”Actually, if we do do that (i.e. neglect that God reveals Himself through His creation) we are not being faithful to Scripture because it is on the basis of what we know about God through Scripture that we know that we can learn about God from His work in His creation, provided that it is properly interpreted by the knowledge in in His Word.”

    Once again, you seem to be now saying that God, His creation, and His written revelation are all three your starting point. You contradict yourself. You seem to prefer contradicting yourself over being consistent or, should I say, coherent. You prefer confusion to coherent thought. You have every right to be as incoherent as you wish, but you will not convince me that you are pursuing truth. You seem to love confusion, if it allows you to avoid truth.

    If God, His revelation and His creation (the cosmos) are all three your starting point, please tell me what is not your starting point. There is nothing left. Everything is your starting point.

    If you start with everything, to what do you proceed? And what happens to the creator/creation distinction?

    Steve M

     
  • At Tuesday, May 19, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    OK, here is my concern. My concern is about what John Frame called the Master Concept problem. There have been all kinds of distortions in theological systems because of basing them upon interpreting Scripture from the vantage point of a master concept. I do not want to have my theology distorted by the inevitable over- emphases and under-emphases that result from the usage of these master concepts. What they do is base their thought systems upon a particular attribute of God or aspect of God or act of God, which thereby produce distorted theologies. Do you see my concern here??

    Now that is why I wish to base my theology on God as a whole. God Himself, not just some aspect or attribute or action of God.

    That is where I am coming from. Do you see that??

    That is why I choose God Himself, God as a whole, as my starting point.

    If you could help me to avoid any confusion about this by helping me to reword my statement of what I mean by my starting point, that would be helpful. I do not know how to make it any clearer. If you can help, I would be obliged.

    Thanks.

    Sincerely,

    Forrest

     
  • At Wednesday, May 20, 2015, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Forrest
    “The whole counsel of God concerning all things necessary for His own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men.”

    If one starts with the “whole counsel of God” and from it deduces ones entire theology, do you see that as a problem? I don’t.

    It is evident that it is because of Scripture that you know God. In other words, Scripture is the cause of your knowledge of God. Your knowledge of God is the effect. The cause precedes the effect. Of course it is true that God breathed the Scriptures, but even your knowledge of that is from Scripture.

    I am afraid to tell you that I can’t help you define what you mean by “starting point”, except to say that it seems to me that when you say “starting point” you mean, “not starting point” or you mean both starting point and not starting point. An epistemology is a theory of knowledge; if one is a Christian one's knowledge comes from Scripture. Even one's knowledge of the authority of Scripture comes from Scripture (unto which nothing is to be added).

    Christianity is the propositions of the 66 books of Scripture together with their logical conclusions. A proposition is the meaning of a declarative sentence.

    Frame:
    Deductivism: (1) Trying to deduce the whole of theology from one “master concept,” (2) drawing deductions from one biblical concept that are incompatible with other biblical concepts.

    I see no problem with deducing the whole of theology from the whole counsel of God. I see no problem believing that the Bible is the whole counsel of God as one's "master concept". Valid deductions from the propositions of Scripture will not be incompatible other valid deductions drawn from other propositions of Scripture.

    Clark discusses Frame and Van Til:

    http://www.trinitylectures.org/MP3/John_Frame_and_Cornelius_Van_Til.mp3

    Steve M

     
  • At Friday, May 22, 2015, Blogger Forrest Schultz said…

    Frame used the term master concept in a derogatory way, meaning an overemphasis on this master concept which results in a distortion where certain truths are eliminated or distorted or completely eliminated from one's theology. I want to have a systenm where all truth is included and where all means of finding truth, such as seeing and hearing are included. That is what I am getting at. I am concerned not only that master concepts may distort truth or eliminate truth from one's system but that God Himself will be derogated thereby, as I have noted in my previous posts. I have already noted some of these, ,such as a system in which God does not care about His natural creation, or God does not have a sense of humor or God is not interesting, etc etc That is my real concern, not so much epistemology per se but the bad results that flow from a false or incomplete epistemology.

    Forrest

     

Post a Comment

<< Home